What can I do with my Communication Major? Guest: Christine Caswell, Director, Internships & Career Readiness, Boston College

Communication: The "Swiss Army Knife" major

Check out my conversation with Christine Caswell, Director, Internships & Career Readiness at Boston College.  Christine guides 800+ Comm majors as they navigate getting an internship and their first "real" job.  Hear about Christine's journey as a broadcast journalist - where she started out and the grit and determination that led to her award-winning success!  A few of the many highlights from our conversation:

• Learn about the many career paths Comm majors can pursue
• What skills will you develop as a Comm major and how to use them professionally
• When and Where to find internships? 
• When will positions open up for me to apply?
• The importance of finding an organization that aligns with your goals

LAUNCH Career Strategies was founded by Karen Elders and Elyse Spalding. We help young professionals launch a successful career path with expert coaching services. Reach out today for an initial FREE coaching session.
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Transcript

Are you looking for your first internship or job or maybe the next step in your career? Welcome to Top of the Pile. The podcast that explores all things career for 20-somethings. I'm Karen Elders with Launch Career Strategies and I'll be your host. Let's get started. Okay. Welcome back to Top of the Pile. 

Anyone interested in the advertising, media, and communication field, I think you're in for a real treat today. My guest today is Christine Caswell. She is an Emmy Award-winning newscaster who currently is the Director of Undergraduate Studies at Boston College directing the Communication major students. I want to add that we were classmates and Communication majors together at BC, which is fun. Christine teaches a number of Communication and Journalism courses at BC and on top of that she oversees 800 plus Communication major students and guides them as they navigate their first steps toward a career and discover their career path options. So a little more on Christine, she brings about three decades of experience as a television and radio news journalist. Most of that time spent in the Boston market. She has covered many top stories of the day, including the OJ Simpson trial in LA, Marv Albert trial in Arlington, Virginia, and very talented has been awarded for her talents with a Telly Award for her work with Catholic TV, has been part of an Emmy Award-winning newscast and their stories at 7 News and has received several AP Associated Press awards. So obviously so much to tell, but I'll let her get into it too, but welcome Christine. 

Thanks Karen. It's great to be here and with a fellow Eagle. 

Nice, nice. Love it. So, I think what will be fun for people to hear is let's start with your experience, becoming a journalist and newscaster. So take us through a little bit of how your career began and what you think made you successful and what time to skills or how you found that success after Boston College. 

I am a huge promoter and believer in the internship program and I can't stress enough how wonderful internships can be for students looking to find their path as they are majoring in certain distance wherever they're studying, not so much in New England with our wonderful communities and schools and colleges and universities in the Northeast, but anywhere really. The important thing is to get out there and experience, have experiential learning in addition to the theory that you're learning in the classroom setting. And so I was very blessed that I took part in the internship program that Boston College had in the 1980s and I interned for WCVB TV Channel 5 Boston, the ABC affiliate Hearst owned and I did a number of different internships there. Interestingly enough, not in the newsroom setting, although that is what I ended up spending most of my practitioner career doing. I interned for the Good Day show, which was a morning news program, much like Today Show, Good Morning America and it was a locally produced program. And I also interned for a movie show called The Great Entertainment with Frank Avruch, who was the host. And so those were local programs and that unfortunately, budgets don't stay in those. The only one in Boston is Chronicle, which is very well known in New England and is still a locally produced show. It's not a network show. But in any case, I began interning in the television setting. So that's where I got bit by the bug, so to speak. I did not know as a college student, would I go into television? Would I go into radio? Would I go into public relations work, advertising work, magazine work? I knew that I was a strong writer and I love to read and I love to storytell. So fortunately, I had the professors back in the day who helped me figure out where should you get an internship, give it a try. And that's what I tell my undergraduates today, give something a try. And if you don't like it, no harm, no follow, you just choose a different internship the next semester or you realize I learned a lot of elements that are now wonderful, adding to my skill set, wonderful experience. But I'm going to take from it what I can and don't really want to do that for the rest of my life. But I like what they're doing over there. And so it's trial and error, but I did get bit by the television bug and it was Frank Avruch who said to me, get into news, get into news, get into news. And I sort of went kicking and screaming into news, you know, a 21 year old at that point, because you know, I knew everything back then as most 20, 21, 22 year olds sometimes believe they do. But I got my first television job after Boston College up in Maine. So I got into news. 

Wow. It's so interesting because it's true. I think what you say about and people should know what learning what you don't want to do is just as valuable as learning what you do want to do. It helps you narrow things down. And I think the internship, I also love that point you make about knowing you like to storytell because so much of media and communications is storytelling, whether you're telling the story of a brand at an ad agency or you're in house at a brand to tell that to a consumer. Or if you're telling the story of a news event that's happened or maybe it's helping a company in strategically communicate there, you know, to their investors. So I love that storytelling piece. So let's stay on internships for a moment. What are the most, you know, what are the most popular and maybe because I think communications can bring you in so many directions. What do you see as sort of the top popular internship programs or internships that the undergrads are taking right now? 

So that's really hard for me to answer that question because the short answer is everywhere. My communication majors literally go everywhere. They go to internship programs that sometimes they find through me or through the Career Center of Boston College or on their own. And it's a myriad of ways that they're locating these internships. Sometimes they enterprise their own as long as they're using their strong oral and written communication skills, their research skills, their critical thinking, the things that are again giving them an experiential learning environment in addition to what they're learning in the classroom. I've had students go in turn at real estate agencies, in sales positions, in finance firms. You don't often consider those as connecting a dot to communication, but every industry needs effective communicators to your point, internal and external communication, whether it be crisis communication, if something unfortunate happens within their company or their industry, there's good crisis where there may be a huge need such as after 9/11, the need to donate blood and the American Red Cross and different service agencies needed crisis communication as in help. Let's tell that story. And it is all about storytelling to back up your point that you made or the point that I made that you appreciated. It is storytelling just in different ways. So some of the popular internships, yes, still tend to be what we call now full service agencies. Back in the day, you would have an ad agency or a PR firm. Now it's a full service communication agency that really does everything, branding, marketing, social media, digital storytelling, internal and external communication, public relations, advertising work. However, what is super important for this particular generation is that they know how to articulate their skills because they've grown up with social media as part of their daily lives, whereas the people they're working for, not everyone is as articulate in the social media realm. So I'm not saying all the internships now are social media based, but that is going to be a lot of what they may be doing initially on behalf of their company and helping bring vision to say a company wants to have a presence on Instagram or wants a presence on X, formerly Twitter. They will often use their interns to help them execute that vision and bring that vision to life because the student is so used to navigating those platforms. So there's a lot of opportunity there as well as using a lot of the digital platforms like Canva or Adobe and some of the editing systems that again, we used to, that's just TV people that use that, not so much anymore. Everyone has little video messages on their websites or little clips, if you will, little sizzle wheels that they're putting together to maybe promote a new product or launch a new plan. And so our students are interning in a variety of settings. What tends to also be extremely popular are the service industry, meaning the giving back to the community, being people for others. So nonprofit work, big brother, big sister, best buddies, make a wish, special Olympics. Students are still really looking to be meaningful and intentional in where they're going. In some respects, I think today's student and I have children of this age group and generation as well, they're being more intentional, deliberate and picky, if you will, and picky not in the bad word, but choosy. They're not going to just take an internship just to put it on a resume. They've been taught well that it doesn't just necessarily mean a resume builder. And so they have choices and they use those choices. Sometimes they've offered several internships, but they realize what I want to be doing because I believe in what this company is doing and the overall message and the voice of the company. Whereas I tend to believe when I was coming up the pipeline as an undergraduate student, it was as though take the internship wherever you can get, wherever you get your foot in the door. I don't know if there was just a lack of internships back then. I can't really speak to knowing that with any real research or data, but I feel as though today's student is definitely more discerning in where they intern. 

Yes, a hundred percent agree with that. And you know, it's come up a few times on this podcast. We've talked about it that the, and it's, it's wonderful because companies have leaned into, they have to because they're, their employees and potential employees are expecting them to be clear about what their mission is, what their values are. You know, they will, you know, show people as part of their, you know, come work for us. We are partners with XYZ nonprofits in our local city or wherever it is or nationally. And that people, people connect with that. And obviously I know, you know, BC is that's so rooted in who, and I think that's just an amazing unique part about BC and maybe other schools that have that Jesuit sort of mentality of helping others. And you know, you don't have to give up on that in your career. So I think that's amazing. And there are certain companies that will give I want to say Pandora because I had worked with someone who got placed at Pandora, the music company that, and I'm sure others do this where they give you free days off that you don't have to use vacation time to go do volunteer work, which is incredible. So it's really, and it could be something that's involved specifically, you know, with the company or if you say, you know what, I'm involved in this other organization and I want to take a couple of days off to go, whatever it might be fill in the blanks, maybe it's traveling somewhere to help out. So I love that. And you know, so I love that you brought that up. I think that's really important. And then, you know, back on the full service agency piece, you know, agencies have gone through that sort of come together, split apart, come together, you know, they break it up and there's creative and there's still, I guess, creative agencies and, you know, specialized agencies. But I do think if you're someone interested in that space, the full service agency is great because they will have sometimes a rotational program where you can really get exposure to multiple parts of the business. And maybe you're not sure or if you are an agency and you in turn, you start working there, you can often go to HR and say, you know, I love what I'm doing. I'm going to keep going. But keep me in mind. I love, like you said, what they're doing over there. So I'd like to shift. I think that's good to know because people get panicked if they start somewhere and they think, oh gosh, maybe this isn't what I want. But back to journalism for a minute, your path, original path, what is that? You know, can you speak to what that looks like today? I mean, there's so much freelance in the world. You know, I do know some friends of mine actually that are in that space and most of them are freelance. They're on the production side. But, you know, I just would love to hear what you have to say about that. And that makes me want to also ask about what you think about the impact of AI. 

The journalism piece is interesting. There are a lot of freelancers, I agree, to this to this point you're making, especially in the print, what we would consider a print world now print digital world. I would say that freelancing is more evident in 2023 than it was when I started getting into the industry in the late 80s, early 90s. But as far as journalism, if we talk about television news journalism, which is where I spent my career, students are still getting hired. They still have to go to small markets. But if they so desire, now I teach in my classes, it doesn't mean that small towns like Presque Isle, Maine, or Bangor, Maine, or places in South Dakota don't deserve solid journalism. They do. But today's journalist, and back when I started, you start small and you move your way up, you cut your teeth, so to speak, in smaller markets, which are more learning markets. And those news directors, some of whom I'm still very close with, and we've seen each other rotate through different markets ourselves, they're patient and they're teaching markets, and they will help critique and coach budding journalists in those different markets. And I'm talking, obviously, the United States for our purposes here in the American TV news markets. And they'll learn how to go and ask a governor about the issues, or what's important locally, learn the local landscape, what's important to the residents of Bangor, Maine, are very different, in some cases very similar, but in some cases very different than communities on the border of Texas and Mexico, for instance. There's just different landscapes. We all want peace and happiness and to live good lives and be healthy and raise our families and have a supportive environment around us and make a good living. We want all of those basic things. But the issues affecting said communities are very different. So it's important for the new journalists to get into the community and really learn it and learn what the local issues are and what the people are about and get to know your environment. And I was given that advice, actually, when I was moving to Bangor, Maine, which was my first television market, and a very well-known news anchor in Boston at Channel 5 that I produced telephones for as I matured out of some of the internships. I was hired full-time for some production assistant and producing roles at Channel 5 in Boston before I went to get my on-air experience in Bangor, Maine. Anyway, former news anchor Natalie Jacobson told me, sit down with the mayor of Bangor and have a cup of coffee and get to know some of the players there. And I never made a coffee date with the mayor of Bangor, but I did get to know the people. So I did take her advice, and that's advice I now share, certainly with my budding journalists, if you will, in some of my classes. You need to get to know the people and start small. And again, it doesn't mean Bangor, Maine doesn't deserve good journalism. They do, and they're doing excellent things up there. But you can't all of a sudden get out of school and start in New York City and start in Boston, Massachusetts, in Detroit, in Chicago. And nor should you. You know, if you get an experience too soon, sometimes I take a deep breath for this, and because it can be extremely overwhelming when a big news event happens, such as what's going on right now in Israel. And if you haven't had the experience of covering stories and covering trauma, knowing what it means to localize in that story and bring it to your local people and what that means, it's really hard, I think, to be dealing with a story of that magnitude or a 9-11, for instance. If you just got out of school, you would not be working in New York City and run toward the Twin Towers to start reporting on what we would later know is the greatest terrorist attack on American soil. So my point being is you need to start small, and that's what I did. I interned, I figured out, I'm going to try this. It may not work out. It may not work out that I moved to Van Gogh and I started a reporting career. But I'm going to get a job, and I'm going to learn. I'm going to learn as much as I can. And then I started to have success, and I felt as though I was good at it, that I was a good storyteller. And then from there, I went to a market in New Hampshire and I covered the 1992 presidential election and the primaries and the debates that took place in New Hampshire, which was fun. And then went to Portland, Maine market and then came as like a talk to Boston. I was at that point the youngest in the field reporter. Meeting experience before you move to a higher level as a journalist, I think, is extremely important. If I were a news director or a news editor or general manager of a station, I would make sure my hires, especially if I was in a medium to a large market, I would certainly make sure my hires had prior experience. Now entry level markets, it's a different story, but you would hope that your new hire had some experience, whether it be at the college station or writing for the college newspapers had some storytelling experience. Moving back to the freelance life, full time jobs are still available. And that's what I know. I know television and what we consider mainstream news, but there's now MMJs, multimedia journalists, that are also being hired by stations. So what they're doing is reporting on their digital space, their digital platform. And so that is a thing now, too, that wasn't around when I started getting into the business of these MMJs, multimedia journalists, where you're throwing out your stories on social media as fast as you can get enough information out there. But then you're also going to repackage that for the digital space. And PS, you may be on the six o'clock news on the local television station that you're affiliated with. So it's multifaceted. Are there still freelance positions in that realm, too? Of course, yes. The hope is that you're going to get a full time job out of it, right? Everybody wants to be able to have benefits and have something that they will sustain them and that they can rely on and have some kind of a contract over. So I wouldn't say that the entire industry is all freelance. There's definitely more of that space. But think of it this way. You can do a full time job in another realm of the communication field and then freelance and have a side gig, if you will, and still make a living and have an income coming in by writing and reporting part time for a publication or a platform that you personally feel gives a voice to the audience that you want to contribute to. And so it's interesting because I know I was just thinking of the skills that you were talking about, the soft skills of critical thinking, research, effectively communicating, understanding that and then the hard skills, the Canva and the Adobe's and things like that. I think data, being able to evaluate data or work with data is something that touches every career out there, basically. Maybe not if you're a newscaster, but certainly if you're looking to see how the media that you're putting out there is being engaged with or not, that's a big piece. What about, I think you mentioned in your early career, it resonated with me so much that you said you really need to be open to learning, obviously, and adaptable and have a little grit and versatility. Will you chat about, speak to that for a little bit? I love that you use the word grit because I was just speaking with one of my peers, literally two days ago. And I teach this generation, the 18 to 25 year old set, I have 18 to 25 year old children literally in that demographic. I've raised them, but I do believe that some of them, not all of them, but some of them do not have the grit that my generation had to grind out work that we may not love what we're doing, but we see that it is a stepping stone to a path down the road that we want instant gratification, today's 18 to 25 year old. And we try to teach that, we try to teach patience and we try to teach temperance and we try to teach them to be present in the moment and to glean what they can off of the situation that they're in right now and not be so jump around from one thing to another every three months. When I was coming up the pipeline, usually the mantra was stay at a location at least a full year and then begin looking for a job. It's easier to look for a job when you have a job, that mindset. We were gritty, we were gritty. When I went to Bangor, Maine, I was making $13,000 a year and no health benefits when my first job started. And I worked at a daycare center in the morning before my evening shift to go and make ends meet and to pay my bills. And I don't know many 18 to 25 year olds today that would just start grinding out like, I'll go and deliver, you know, now we can't say deliver newspapers, but I'll go and work in a coffee shop or I'll go and do this. PS while I'm working on my career. It's a different mindset today, but you do still have to be gritty. You have to be gritty. You have to be dogged. You have to persevere even doing the things that you may find are boring or beneath you or somebody else's job. You need to stay versatile. And every person that I have as a guest speaker in any of my classrooms or the career center has on this campus and campuses all over the nation will tell you, you need to not just stay in your lane. You need to do what's in your lane when you're an intern or an entry level job, but you need to be aware of what's happening around you. And if somebody is stressed out and needs an extra hand, if you're putting an event together and oh, well, you're not in charge of bringing the roles for the hamburger, you know, to the table, but they're all backed up, you jump in and you help you jump in. We had a member of senior member of the Boston Red Sox in speaking to some students, not that long ago. And there was an event that was happening and tables were not where they were supposed to be. And there was just a little bit of some confusion that was happening and time was running out. And she rolled up her sleeves and she jumped in and she did it. She wasn't begrudging. She wasn't snappy or angry at the team that perhaps got backed up, but she was a senior member of the administration. She got the job done. And you need to be gritty. You need to do that and you need to look around and say, hey, this team over here, you don't say not my problem, not getting paid for that. You jump in and you be that proverbial team player and you remain gritty because that's what gets you noticed. And then supervisors are going to say, I want her on my team. I want him on my team. I want they on my team. I want those types of people that are going to do whatever it takes and truly get it and be a team player for the good of all, for the good of what we're trying to do as a corporation, as an institution, as a department and grind that out, even if you only do it for a year or two. But you're learning, you're learning about people, you're learning about yourself, you're gaining leadership skills, you're learning. It may be hard. We all have different personalities. But those are some of, as you say, the soft skills. People have to be good askers of questions and good listeners. We have to put down, I don't even know where my phone is, good for me, that it's not right at my beck and call. We have to put down a cell phone. We have to not be distracted by all that's coming at us in this day and age. And there is a lot. In TV land, you have like a million screens all before you and you're watching what everybody's doing. And be in the moment. Listen to your colleagues. Be a good asker of questions. And as you ask those questions, listen, listen to those answers. Because that leads to maybe a follow-up question. We're talking journalism skills here now, but that leads to a follow-up question or another line of questioning or another story budding there altogether that you may not have even realized when you went into said conference room, meeting, press conference, ad agency setting, whatever it may be. That creativity is sparked and if you're curious, be curious. Be a curious human being. Put the cell phones down if you're not supposed to be using the cell phone, if you're not sending out a message on X and limit the distraction so that you can be in the present moment that allows you to learn more and therefore be gritty and be a team player and go all in. We all want people in our own lives, right, in our own departments, in our own office settings. We want them to be all in. If we're all in, we want our fellow teammates to be all in. If somebody's having a down day, then you pick that person up. When you're having a down day, you hope, oh, somebody's going to come to my rescue because I can rely on them. 

Hallelujah. I just love all of that. I mean, it's all right on point with what young people need to hear. It's so true about the internship because often I will hear people say, I did this internship or I'm doing it, but maybe it's not organized. Some are super organized and they really have a well-oiled machine, but many internships don't even at larger organizations sometimes. You'll be like, don't have enough to do and you're sitting there twiddling your thumbs, but get up and use that opportunity. I always say also to internally network. Go have coffee chats. Again, some of these internship programs will have a very organized situation where they help you set up these coffee chats, whether it's via Zoom or in person, but create your own coffee chat opportunities. I can't imagine anyone in the company that a young person interning or a new employee, it doesn't matter if you're an intern or a new employee, to say, get to know everyone. Understand, like you said, be curious. One of the biggest things I find people don't know is they work either they've interned or they work at a company and they're not totally sure what the real revenue model of the company or the goals or the mission. Certainly we talked about it earlier, potential and current employees are pressing companies to make that part important and shown and clear. As far as what that company does and where your department that you're working in fits in and how it works with other departments, you might not see when you're go sit in that conference room and do this spreadsheet. You just feel sort of out of it, but you do need to speak up and say, Hey, so where does this data go next? Or what happens? Where does that fit in? What is our, you know, what are we trying to do here? For lack of better way of saying it. So I think the curious piece, the gritty piece and not being afraid to raise your hand and say, I've got questions. I want to learn more, you know, and then be in that moment. So I love all of that. And so, okay, one last question on the internships. Do you find that people that are finding internships for next summer, are they right now in the thick of the application process from your standpoint, or is it more a spring, you know, January, February, March, right? Because finance is so early. And and I guess part of that is, is it January, February, March, which I think, I think is what you'll agree with, but I want to hear what you have to say. And then also, are our undergrads finding they can get internships sophomore summer and junior summer, or is it really more about the junior summer? 

Great questions. And I get this a lot. So in the communication journalism field, they hire on an as need basis. So internships, I often as big as Boston colleges, and we're in a greater Boston, you know, market, and we're competing with other schools here, certainly in Boston. If students want Boston area, greater Boston area or Massachusetts specific internships, I often will get them in in even April, May. Now we think of May as in academia, our summer starts in May, because we get out of school then. Our industry thinks of summer as June, July, August. So yes, I will start seeing them come in trickle in now, maybe January, February, March, April, I would say March, April are heavier. As far as the flow and the need for internships, unless it is to your point, an organized, well oiled, systematic internship program, such as like the NBC page program, or one of those rotational programs, if it's with scripts, or I'm trying to think of some others that I've seen come in recently, where they're looking for summer of 2024 already in the deadline maybe in in November or December. So they will start trickling in now. And so be creative and look locally, I said, if students look locally, cast a wet wide net, look elsewhere and then look national. So don't just say I'm going to go to 30 Rock and I'm actually getting a New York City internship this summer. Apply there, don't not apply because it's so competitive, but apply other places too and then apply local New York City, apply to some full service agencies, apply to Long Island bureaus, apply to New Jersey, Connecticut. So kind of get in the house if you will, but be willing to spread out and branch out and cast a wide net and see who bites and where you're getting the call back or the initial interview in today's day and age, it tends to be over zoom regardless. Yeah, I agree. So finance, yes, the business school, a lot of them are in the throes of it now because they're getting ready for next summer, even business school students that are about to graduate in May of 2024 may already have their jobs lined up for next summer. My students in communication, very few, we have 800 majors, very few right now know where they're going after graduation. So we teach them and coach them that it's all going to work out. You're going to find something, but communication, journalism, full service agencies, this side of the industry hires on an ad need basis. They're not going to know if they gain, if a full service agency gains three clients in March, they need some more, uh, execs in the next month. They're not going to plan for that right now in October because they don't know if they have new clients coming on, if they have the budget for that. It's a little, you know, the, the deadline is a little bit tighter, uh, especially for students who are nervous upon graduation, if their families are giving them pressure. And so hopefully if you do have a 18 to 25 year old undergraduate or 18 to 22 year old undergraduate student about to, you know, um, graduate from a college and get into the proverbial real world, you'll realize that the hiring cycle is very different for those 21, 22 year olds. Um, they're not locking positions in now. Right. And, and to that point, one of the things you said, I think is so important that young people need to remember, not just to look for jobs. I always tell them to, I think it's important to lead with finding companies that you're interested in learning about the company and the culture and the mission and you know, being aligned with what the company is and then trying to find jobs within that company. I think that's an ideal way at least, but also to pay attention to what's going on. So be follow the news of these companies because you'll know in advance if they, like you said, if they get on it, they get a, they win a big new client or they're in that growth stage or if they in the news that they lose a bunch of clients, they're probably not going to be hiring. They're maybe going to be letting people go. So those are your simple cues to look for. I think people should remember that. So, um, this is all great. This is great. What else? Anything else you want to add? Um, another tip that I have too is that when we're talking again, I'm going to focus on my industry, but even higher learning, institutes of higher learning colleges, community colleges, private school settings, universities, often students don't realize that those are businesses and companies too. So yes, they've studied at them, but I'll say, have you ever thought to look over at, um, MIT or Harvard or Boston University, there's human resources departments. There are, uh, media relations departments, public communication departments, uh, sales departments, if they have, you know, ticket sales sports, if you're interested in sports, there's so many other ways that students can use their passion and their hobbies and interests along with their hard and soft skills to find a setting for them in an industry that they might, may not even realize does have something for them. So say TV save channel five in Boston where I started. Okay. I went the TV route because it's a TV station, but there's sales, there's human resources, there's internal and external communications. There's radio stations call them street teams, but there's like, um, the community relations teams that go out and promote and are at events like walk for hunger or do the community service piece to it. Um, there is something called traffic and that doesn't mean traffic out on the roads. It means you are working to figure out which advertisements are running when and you're scheduling every ounce of the day, basically, as far as the time schedules. Um, there's finance. So a finance student can go and work at a television station or with a television industry setting or radio media, they can go into that line of work, but utilize what they've learned and what their skills are in that setting. Similarly to university settings, which provide great benefit packages, especially if you ultimately want to settle in an area. You love the area, you know, want to have a family. Those can be wonderful career paths. Institutes of higher learning, private school settings. Um, the nation is filled with them. So this is where some students don't know how to be creative or some young people don't know how to be creative and they think they need to pigeonhole into one sort of path and they really don't. They can be extremely creative in so far as learning to your point, a company that they like, that they appreciate, that they know a little bit about is there an opportunity there that matches what I can do? Can I bring value to that company? How do I add value? What do I have that they need and that I can be really good at and enjoy? Exactly. It's, it's so true. I completely agree. And I love all those different ideas that you just presented for people to think about and kind of say, Oh, you're right. I could do that. I mean, and it's so true. It's the value of a liberal arts education that you are exposed to so many disciplines and really come out with critical thinking, how to communicate all of those key pieces that you need in any career you go into any career. 

This is awesome, Christine. Thank you so much. I love all of this. I think it's going to be so valuable. I will put a lot of these notes and different things that you've mentioned that maybe in the show notes as well, that people can find links to. I love that you mentioned Natalie Jacobson because I completely remember her as a, uh, a newscaster. And I think, Oh, I know I wanted to say speaking of internships, I have a Boston college intern working with me this fall. So I'm going to give a shout out to Christina Klinoff. She is great. 

Yes. And I'm so happy that we are able to provide her for you and she's doing wonderful things. And I'm sure it is extremely valuable. She really is. 

And that's, if there's one last thing to highlight is how can you bring value? How can you make an impact? And it's hard for young people to figure that out, but, um, it's a lot of reflection and self-awareness and trying to think about, you know, and so when you're in that internship or job, that is also how am I making an impact or value? Take notes and keep track of that so you can put it on your resume properly. But anyway, so much we could keep going, but thank you so much. I really appreciate you being on. 

Awesome. Great to see you, Karen. 

Launch Career Strategies helps young professionals launch in a successful and fulfilling career path. Check us out at launchcareerstrategies.com. By the way, if you enjoyed this podcast, please leave a rating and a review. Reviews are key to helping spread the word about Top of the Pile so it can reach other young professionals or anyone looking for advice on how to up their career. Thanks for listening. I hope you have and are having an awesome week.

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